Mary vs. Martha: Finding Peace Through Secure Attachment and Nervous System Awareness

Mary vs. Martha: Finding Peace Through Secure Attachment and Nervous System Awareness

Amber Ton, a Catholic therapist, uses Luke 10:38–42 to address why many women default to busyness like Martha and how faith and psychology can help them find peace without abandoning their personality or calling. She explains that Martha’s problem isn’t serving but being “anxious and troubled,” meaning divided and disconnected, and connects this to sympathetic fight-or-flight, dopamine-driven productivity, and anxious attachment formed when love feels conditional. Martha’s plea is framed as an attachment bid (“Do you see me?”), and Jesus’ response models secure attachment by calling her name, naming her distress, and gently redirecting her. Amber applies this to parenting (“connect before you correct”) and marriage (Gottman “soft startup”), contrasts Mary’s restful presence with performance, discourages comparison, and offers practical steps: examine motivation, practice small acts of presence, pray while serving, and journal spiritual attachment needs using a free handout adapted for relationship with God.

00:00 Welcome to Catholic Couch
00:38 Mary and Martha Setup
01:14 Luke 10 Story Recap
01:53 Anxious and Divided
03:03 Nervous System and Attachment
05:27 Jesus Models Secure Attachment
07:31 Connect Before Correct
08:53 Marriage Soft Startup
10:00 Mary Brain Stillness
11:09 Beyond Team Mary vs Martha
12:14 Practical Ways to Practice Presence
13:27 Closing and Free Handout

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Catholic Couch, the official podcast of the Catholic Counseling Institute, where we integrate the beauty of the Catholic faith with modern psychology and offer you practical tips for real-world struggles. I'm Amber Kilkinted, Catholic therapist, wife, mother, and woman who has once tried to deep breathe, offer it up, and make a to-do list all at the same time. Let me paint a picture. You've got dinner on the stove, dishes in the sink, and a toddler clinging to your leg. Your phone buzzes with a work email, and your mental checklist is growing faster than your laundry pile. And then someone tells you, just sit with Jesus. And you want to scream. Sit! I can't even go to the bathroom alone. Sound familiar? Today's episode is for every woman who longs to be more like Mary but lives in a Martha Pace world. We're going to look at why we often default to busyness, how our attachment style and nervous system play into this, how Jesus responds with profound compassion to Martha's plea, and how you can find peace without abandoning your personality or calling. Let's go. Jesus visits the home of Martha and Mary. Martha, being the amazing hostess she is, is busy preparing everything. She's cooking, organizing, probably fluffing pillows. Did they have pillows back then? Serving in every way. Mary, meanwhile, is sitting at the feet of Jesus, listening. Eventually, Martha speaks up. Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do all the work? Tell her to help me. Jesus replies, Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, but only one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the better part, and it will not be taken from her. Now, let's pause here, because this moment is often misunderstood. Jesus doesn't say stop serving. He doesn't say, Mary, you are good. And Martha, you are bad. He says, you are anxious and troubled. And that word anxious, according to the Greek, is Merenamo, which means to be troubled with cares, to be unduly concerned. It comes from the root word, which means to divide or to be pulled apart. When Jesus says you're anxious, he's not referring to what we normally think of in modern psychology, the feeling of anxiety. That's something a little different. And something we'll explore in another video, because I think it's very important to understand when Jesus says don't be anxious about anything, he's not condemning people. He's not saying that if you have an anxiety disorder, you're somehow doing something wrong. But that's for another day. Martha wasn't wrong for serving. Her service wasn't the problem. It was that she was mentally divided, emotionally distracted, most importantly, disconnected from the one she was serving. And isn't that something we can all relate to? That moment when you're making dinner and everyone else is relaxing and you're muttering under your breath while banging pots and pans around. Yeah, that's the Marinamo moment. The Martha brain. When you're overwhelmed, multitasking, and emotionally drained, your brain is likely in sympathetic dominance. Fancy word for fight or flight. Your amygdala, the fear center and smoke alarm of the brain, is screaming, danger, you're behind. Your dopamine system is saying, check something off the list. Your prefrontal cortex, the front part of the brain with logic and reflection, is blind. And often this wiring starts early. If you grew up in a home where love was tied to achievement, responsibility, caretaking, your nervous system may have learned being helpful equals being safe. This is different than parents who are encouraging or proud of your accomplishments. This is when the primary way that you receive love, tenderness, and a feeling of belonging is when you're performing. That's where anxious attachment often begins. When love and attachment feel conditional. This can play out even in the way Martha addresses Jesus. She doesn't go to Mary directly, she triangulates through Jesus. Tell her to help me. Parents of siblings will recognize this classic dynamic. You can almost hear the tone. Sibling rivalry, biblical addition. But underneath it, there's something tender. Martha's making a bid for connection. She's essentially asking Jesus, do you see me? Do you care? Can I count on you? Will you respond? In marriage counseling, I often reference Dr. Sue Johnson's Are You There For Me questions in moments when the fight is no longer about the fight. If you want to see how this plays out in marriage, check out our video on is your fight about the dishwasher or something else. And while this situation isn't a marriage relationship between Martha and Jesus, the questions still apply. Because remember, we have an attachment style to everyone that we're in relationship with. The three key questions in secure attachment are accessibility. Are you emotionally available to me? Can I reach to you? Responsive. Can I rely on you? Will you help me? Engaged. Will you tune in and give me your attention? Do I matter to you? And much like times when couples get stuck in an argument, the issue kind of isn't the issue. It's all the attachment stuff under it. I think this is where Martha is. It's not just about the helping, it's about what's going on in her relationship between her and Jesus. Martha's asking all three, and Jesus responds perfectly. So let's take a closer look at how Jesus responds to Martha, because it's absolutely masterful, spiritually, psychologically, and relationally. He doesn't shut her down. He doesn't tell her to stop feeling what she's feeling. He doesn't snap, calm down, Martha, even though many of us might have. Instead, he does something that models the very heart of secure attachment. Let me break it down. Number one, he calls her name. He anchors her in relationship. In scripture, saying a name twice is often a sign of deep emotional intimacy. Jesus is saying, I see you, I know you, I love you. She feels seen. Number two, he names her distress. You are anxious and troubled about many things. This is huge. Jesus isn't just commenting on her activity, he's naming her inner world. He identifies her emotional state before offering any kind of redirection. She feels safe and soothed. When someone lovingly names what we're feeling, it calms our nervous system. It tells our body, I'm not alone. I don't have to fix this all myself. Number three, he gently calls her to something more. But only one thing is necessary and Mary has chosen the better part. And then, only then, he redirects her gently, lovingly, without shame. She feels secure. She knows she is loved and invited into growth. So, in this one short interaction, Jesus models all four pillars of secure attachment. Let's pause for a moment for some psychology talk. By now you know, in the world of psychology, secure attachment is the foundation of all healthy relationships, whether with God, a parent, a spouse, a friend, when we experience these four things. Feeling seen, someone notices what we're going through. Feeling safe, we're not judged or rejected for how we feel. Feeling soothed, someone helps calm us when we're overwhelmed. And feeling secure. We know they won't leave and we can trust them. Now, go back and read this list while thinking about how Jesus responds to Martha. He does every single one. This is the model for how we're called to respond to others in distress. Parenting application. Connect before you correct. Let's bring this into real life for a second. Whether you're parenting toddlers or teenagers, behavior change starts with connection. When our kids are melting down, our instinct is to jump to solutions, rules, or discipline. But here's the truth from brain science. When someone is distressed, upset, angry, scared in fight, flight, or freeze, they literally cannot learn. The prefrontal cortex, that front part of the brain responsible for reasoning, reflection, and growth, goes offline. What brings it back online? Connection. So if your child's throwing blocks or your teenager is slamming doors, you can go with stop it right now, or you're grounded. I think we all know how that one works. Or you could try, you're really frustrated right now. I get that, I'm here. It is not okay to slam doors in this house. Let's both take a time out to calm down, and then we'll talk about what's really going on here. That doesn't mean you don't address the behavior. I think sometimes people confuse attachment-based parenting with permissive parenting. It's not the same. You absolutely can and should set clear boundaries. But connection first, correction second. Connect before you correct. It's what Jesus did with Martha. He didn't ignore her complaint. He just started with her heart. And if these parenting suggestions and applications are something you'd like to hear more about, just let me know. Drop a comment saying, more parenting content, please, and I'll keep it coming. Marriage application. Repair starts with secure startup. All right, married friends, this one's for you. The same approach works wonders in marriage, especially when tensions are high. One of the most powerful ways to begin a conversation, even a hard one, is what the Gottmans call the soft startup. That means instead of charging in with, you never help around the house, you could try, I know you've been really tired lately. I see that. And I'm feeling overwhelmed trying to manage everything alone. Can we try to come up with a plan that works for both of us? See the difference? The first way puts your spouse on defense because their brain registers your criticism as a threat to the relationship and panics. The second rhymes their brain to be open and engaged. It puts them in the best possible position to hear you because it answers those ARE questions. Are you accessible? Are you responsive? Are you emotionally engaged? When we feel seen, we're more willing to hear. We're more able to hear, and then we're able to learn. All behavior change is learning. And if you're wondering how to phrase these things naturally without sounding like a therapist at the dinner table, don't worry, you're not alone. I'm working on a whole episode just for that. So if you want more of that, drop me a note in the comments too. Who knew we could get so much wisdom from just a few lines of scripture? Okay, deep breath, shake off the therapy talk, stretch your shoulders, sip your emotional support coffee. Because now we're ready to look at Mary's brain, what stillness looks like, and how neuroscience explains the kind of peaceful presence that she embodied. And yes, it is something you can learn, even if you're the CEO of Team Martha. Back to our regular scheduled program: the Mary brain, what stillness really looks like. Mary isn't passive. She's intentional. She's not doing nothing. She's doing the most important thing, being with Jesus. From a neurological standpoint, she's parasympathetic mode or rest and digest. Her body is calm, grounded, safe. She's using the brain's system for empathy, reflection, connection. And she isn't driven by dopamine-fueled productivity or by an anxious desire to be seen. Her joy isn't in doing, it's in being. Jesus affirms her presence, not just her performance. And this brings to mind something from the wisdom of Edith Stein. I loved it when she said the world doesn't need what women have, it needs what women are. This isn't a scolding of Martha. It's a compliment to Mary. It's a reminder that our presence is the gift he's longing for. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Are you Team Mary or Team Martha? Or maybe it's Team Cleanliness is next to holiness versus team happy homes have sticky floors. We love to divide ourselves into camps. And there's actually some neuroscience here about our desire to flock into tribes, but we continue. Let's be honest. Sometimes this leads to judgment and competition with our sisters instead of encouragement. Here's the truth. Some of us are in survival mode with newborns, some of us are taking care of elderly parents, some are thriving in their state of life, and others are rebuilding from burnout. Some are neurodivergent, some are introverts, some are deep feelers, empaths, who need a little more quiet to hear God's voice. So here's your permission slip. You don't need to become merry if you're not called to be merry today. You don't need to stop being Martha if you're serving from a place of peace and connection. Think of the words of Our Lady. Do whatever he tells you to do. Discern that with him. It's not a competition with others. Let's cheer each other on instead of comparing callings. Here's a few ways to start. Number one, examine your motivation. When you're working hard and serving, am I doing so out of fear and compulsion or out of freedom? Number two, start with small acts of presence. Allow yourself to be interrupted. I know this is hard. I really struggle with this one. When you get started on a task, especially when you know you have a very long list of things to do before you can lay your head on that pillow at night, it can be really, really hard to be interrupted by a child who wants to share a portion of a video that they like or has a question about their homework. Allow yourself to take a breath, to be interrupted, to connect and be present in these moments. Believe me, the laundry will still be there on the other side. And maybe you didn't realize that that chihuahua song video that your child wanted you to see is actually something you really needed and brought a smile to your face. Link in the description. Number three, connect daily tasks with the person you're serving. One of my dear friends once told me when I was a young mom that when she does laundry for her children, she prays for the person whose laundry she's holding. Genius, connect the task that you're doing with the people you're serving so you can stay present and in relationship. Number four, consider journaling about the spiritual attachment needs under your request to God. I have a handout to help you do this. I'll tell you more in just a second. So, my dear sisters, whether you're having a merry moment, a Martha meltdown, or something in between, remember this. Jesus invites you to let your doing flow from being, to live from connection, not compulsion or fear, and to be undivided in your love. As we grow this channel together, I want to serve you in ways that truly help. So please leave a comment in any topic suggestions, spiritual struggles, or practical questions that you'd like me to tackle in future episodes. I read every one. Let your fellow sisters know if you have more ideas to help you stay connected and to balance the Mary and Martha inside of you. And if you'd like a copy of that free handout, there's a link in the description. This handout is based on the handout that I use with couples all the time. It has all of the categories of the are you there for me questions that couples can look at when they get stuck. But here's the twist. I reformatted it, I catholicised it, I adapted it to your relationship with God. See if it's helpful. Until next time. You just have to turn towards it. And remember, I'll always leave a space for you on the Catholic couch. Tiny tornado on four little things.